• Announcements

    • Brentonator

      Forum Rules (Please Read)

      Hello everyone and welcome to the No More Room In Hell Forums! We greatly appreciate your interest and support. Please feel free to begin post and become a part of this community. But please make sure that you read and understand the following rules so things can stay as clean and as orderly as possible around here. These rules are expected to be follow by any and all members at all times. Disobeying these rules will result in disciplinary action by a moderator. #1. Off color remarks are acceptable but can be deemed inappropriate at the discretion of the moderators. #2. Flaming and disrespecting other members of this community or this mod is strictly prohibited. #3. Please do not post links relating to warez or illegal downloading. #4. No offensive content is to be posted (gore, dead babies, porn). #5. Please do not spam topics to increase your post count. #6. No excessively large signatures. Signatures that violate this will be modified. #7. Signatures are not to be used as a spamming tool. If your signature's sole purpose is to annoy or distract other members, it will be removed. #8. Please do your part to be as friendly, respectful, and helpful to anyone and everyone on this forum. #9. Your posts may be removed at any time at our sole discretion. #10. Remember the terms of your registration...a copy is posted below but may not represent the latest version of our terms of use. #11. No advertising other communities or products. Have fun.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
NokiaSE

Since NMRiH claims to be a realistic zombie mod.

17 posts in this topic

I just download this mod yesterday and play all the existing maps alone with sv_cheats is on because I can't find anyone in my region (Taiwan) to play with. And the experience it gave is dang impressive and good even under console command rampaging. So as always and how this post is titled, I'm here to throw some feedbacks/suggestions based the theme/style of the game.

Let's start with the core concept of a zombie-game. The Zombies.

Zombie in NMRiH appears to be.... well, zombies. They don't explode into acid shower, use a chainsaw and had the head paper bagged or playing tentacle tricks. But that doesn't mean they are dull and needed to be so to make them being as the enemy that is fun, exciting and challenging to face with.

First of all, as we seeing the physique of zombies in this game are varies - some taller, some walking lamely and some are in child form. I suggest the NMRiH dev to give detailed characteristics to each kind of zombie. For instance:

  • Zombie types:
    There are two major types of zombie in general. One is walker and the other is infected/runner.
  • Walker - Walker rises from their grave or right where they were, they are the zombies that still walk the earth after their death. And because of their senses are dead along with their soul. Walkers are - senseless and numb, no reaction to the pain thus capable to bear much more damage before they physically can't take it anymore.
  • Infected/Runner - Infected are not dead technically, they are simply just infected. The status they're at are not far from their transition to the so-called 'zombie'. And they seems still remain some capability like the sense of feeling which make them easier to kill and behavior like running because of this.
  • Zombie attributes:
  • Weak - some zombie are weak, has lower resistance to damages and forces(shove/bash) because of their skinny/older/young/worn physique.
  • Lame - move slower, harder to predict their steps (pace of movement).
  • Obesity - can bear more damage with their belly, waves as they move(walk) hence make their head harder to catch/aim.
  • Rot - less health but more toxic, making their attacks more likely to infect survivors.
  • Older - weaker, easier to kill and shove away and fall on their feet.
  • Child - somehow more agile thanks to their size. Able to slip pass some terrain that other zombie in a adult(bigger) form can't. And their attacks and resistance to damages are relatively minor and lower. Pretty much only has half or third in both health and attack damage compare to regular zombies.
  • Particularly injured - some zombies already taken some damages before or after they became a zombie. And the injury they carry along became their weak spot. Such as a open wound in the chest, hence make their heart more vulnerable.
  • Appearances:
    I see the appearance/skin library for the zombies are not rich enough that same skin will applied on different body figure/movement posture in the current build. And some skin are jut not fit to some movement posture, making some zombies looks so weird and ridiculous. Hope to see this issue will be no more as the mod grow and expand. And you guys might need to write a AI for what skin type apply to what type of body figure. Including what skin will be used in different environment, such as you'll see zombies that wears police uniform in a police station.
  • Spawn mechanism:
    Zombies are very likely to idle at right where they are and wandering around when there is no immediate attraction around them after the initial spawn. And in NMRiH zombies appear to be able to kept spawning without limitation like where, when and how much(scale). And I consider the this current design a bad and not a right one if this game is aiming to be realism focused. Here is what I think the spawning mechanism should be like.
    Except specially designed event. Zombies should be spawn throughout the entire map at a vast value like 150 in the initial spawn. Then as the game progresses they will be naturally get attracted and gathering, moving, marching toward the players. Which means they don't spawn from out of nowhere, came out from the exact corner you just cleared. The successive zombie spawn should be lesser than 3~30 zombies at a time, at a yet visited location to the player and also a distance away from the player. The spawns can be gather in one area or spread around the surrounding fragmentary.

That's it for today, hope you like it. Probably going to talk about the weapon setting tomorrow :)

Edited by NokiaSE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They aren't infected, they're runners. In our mythology, people who have died within 24-72 hours remain running zombies, before lactic acid and other factors kick in and begin to atrophy muscle movement.

your other ideas are nice. We have plans for crawling zombies and armored zombies (zombified soldiers etc), we'd like to make nmrih more in depth with more zombie sub types though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are the second part. I've try to post it as simple and easy to understand as possible. But guess what? This world is not simple B)

  • Combat system:
  • Mag check: This will be better if we can commence reload right after we acknowledged the status inside the mag. Means for those firearm fed by detachable box magazines. We don't have to insert the magazine back first to finish the check animation, then detach it back out again to reload. We can simply just tap the reload key again to replace the magazine in-hand at the moment before the magazine insert back to the firearm to finish the reload along with the mag check.
  • Reload: The reload animation should be layered. Which will make us don't have to start the whole reload process over again whenever we commence a new different action during the reload process. Such as melee and entirely stop/suspend the reload process by swapping the weapon off.
    --
  • Weapon settings:
  • Bullet effectiveness: It is unrealistic and also unbalance that we seeing we can instant-kill a zombie by hit them in the head with a rather lightweight melee weapon while a rather small caliber bullet can't do the same in the current build. A bullet should always have enough power to one-hit-kill a zombie when hit in the center mass of the brain. Which will typically be a bullseye shot between the eyebrow. In the other hand means the position we hit in their head is further away from their brain, the more likely for them to survive that headshot. But in some condition it will always be a one-hit-kill with a rather big caliber firearm. The cartridge just have enough power to destroy the brain.
    Making examples with pistol calibers:
    9mm Luger - Only capable to deliver one-hit-kill when hit within 1.8 inches from center point between the eyebrows.
    .45ACP - The only case this cartridge don't deliver a one-hit-kill is when the headshot hit very close to the edge of the head.
    [.357Magnum - This cartridge have so much power that it will always be a instant-kill when headshot with it. Even penetrate the head of initial target and kill, but the lethality of the bullet will be dropped every time it penetrate (after each object/head that come into withstand of the power).
  • Damage characteristics:
    First of all, all attacks in a violent form are involve with velocity and punch forces. With mass, a velocity object that carried with the force will deliver the force upon contact - thus dealing damage, destruct the structure what it's up against. This will be the base damage value affect with the hit point and cause death to the subject/target when their hp is down to zero.
    Blunt (punch force) - Unlike delivering force through a sharp object will cause the force energy to transmit and focus to the tip - thus making a penetration to the point of contact. The force energy will be able to spread on the contact surface area when using a blunt object as the medium of the force. The more force is delivered, the more the target will be knocked. Which will cause them to knock back for couple steps, fall down to the ground or collide those in behind and knock/trip them as well.
    Sharp (penetration) - The more sharpness the object have. The more likely the attack will penetrate through and doing further damage. Which is suggesting the edge weapons in the game are capable to slash multiple targets at once. How many target could a sharp melee weapon slash at once will determine by their mass(size). So you will probably not going to slash any one else with a utility knife.

Edited by NokiaSE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why exactly with wounded zombies would it matter if their heart was exposed? They're dead, they don't NEED a heart to bite your face off, maybe if their neck was halfway there, that'd make sense. I just don't see the need for a "wounded" zombie type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why exactly with wounded zombies would it matter if their heart was exposed? They're dead, they don't NEED a heart to bite your face off, maybe if their neck was halfway there, that'd make sense. I just don't see the need for a "wounded" zombie type.

Those wound injury will be like a sweet spot that player would like to hit. For instance, you could probably shut down a zombie's mobility and make it crawling by hitting the spot - or aim their injuried arm and limb it off, reduce their damage capability. This provides more options, something more than aiming their head all the time, hence making gameplay richer.

Edited by NokiaSE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those wound injury will be like a sweet spot that player would like to hit. For instance, you could probably shut down a zombie's mobility and make it crawling by hitting the spot - or aim their injuried arm and limb it off, reduce their damage capability. This provides more options, something more than aiming their head all the time, hence making gameplay richer.

Why not just y'know, kill the thing outright instead of wasting time seeing if I can make its' arms look like tacked on scarves if I broke them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not just y'know, kill the thing outright instead of wasting time seeing if I can make its' arms look like tacked on scarves if I broke them?

With a firearm. Yea of course, you can always go for the headshot for the maximum kill effect. But in the case you're using a melee weapon then it will be rewarding and worth to spend the time for you to hit. Even you can't achieve that maim effect outright at the moment you'll still deal bonus damage by hitting the spot.

Set your self in a situation like nmo_cabin, the map where you have to fight your self through mostly with melee weapons. And you just finished the generator objective but the hordes are closing in and about to get you surrounded and trapped.

With skill, you knew you can fight through this and live to see another day. But the risk is way too high for you to bear. And by having this injury concept applied. You can find the path that had a thinner horde, make them unlikely to grab you and deal critical damage by main off their arm. Then make your run.

Edited by NokiaSE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like NokiaSE's ideas, however it sounds like a lot of extra work for the devs.

I like a couple main points you made:

1. Reloading does have it's annoying side

Mag check: This will be better if we can commence reload right after we acknowledged the status inside the mag. Means for those firearm fed by detachable box magazines. We don't have to insert the magazine back first to finish the check animation, then detach it back out again to reload. We can simply just tap the reload key again to replace the magazine in-hand at the moment before the magazine insert back to the firearm to finish the reload along with the mag check.

Reload: The reload animation should be layered. Which will make us don't have to start the whole reload process over again

2.More zombie types would make for much more diverse gameplay, as long as it doesn't take away from the feeling of realism.

3. I also feel the spawn system to pull from the realism, however, it would probably be easier if the devs find better places to spawn them, as opposed to making a complex spawning system. For example, in nmo_cabin, I often find zombies "appearing" between me, and a closed door. This is very frustrating, because they just poof in out of no where, and often sneak up on me, even though I cleared the area, and there's no way more zombies could have shown up.

4. Finally, I agree with your view on firearms, if a shot is placed through the center of a zombies head, no matter what caliber, it should be an instant kill.

Obviously this is a laundry list of work for the devs and is totally up to their discretion, but these are a lot of things that would make your game more unique and enticing for realism fanatics, like myself.

Edited by Breezy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have thought myself that if a zombie were to take enough trauma it would be immobilized regardless of what its brain is telling it to do. The game could consider adding the "twitcher" concept from the more recent Dawn of the Dead or something of the like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like NokiaSE's ideas, however it sounds like a lot of extra work for the devs.

Yea I kind of worry/afraid the more I throw will only cause more trouble to the devs by the fact that, this is only a mod and the NMRiH team are making this mod in their free time. So I'll tend stop suggesting things taht will require lots of hard works. Something like Revolver will need a 0.4 seconds of firekey hold down (to simulate trigger sqeeze) in order to fire thorugh double-action.

And that is one soft suggestion here for today. It tooks 0.4 seconds of holding down firekey for a Revolver to fire in double-action method from the hip.

Edited by NokiaSE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Rot - less health but more toxic, making their attacks more likely to infect survivors."

This is probably the only I idea you have that I think is realistic within the the mod.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Rot - less health but more toxic, making their attacks more likely to infect survivors."

This is probably the only I idea you have that I think is realistic within the the mod.

If that's true. I would be glad to see that idea made it and this mod gets more better.

----

The following are the feedbacks and suggestions made from the build ver1.05 beta.

*1: Different types of ammo should weigh differently. As we seeing in the current build you can only carry up to 140 rounds of reserve ammo regardless their types.

*2: Although we can actually aim with it and it looks pretty cool. But I still don't think M16A4's ACOG can be projecting the image on the lens when we're not looking into it.

Edited by NokiaSE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gentlemen...

These are nice ideas, sir, altough I think that making cetain weapons do a number of low damage "sub-strikes" in a swing would be simplier (Try PVKII, they have something like this in there. PS: Their devs are taking over "Mod DNF" from NMRiH and Black Mesa)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gentlemen...

These are nice ideas, sir, altough I think that making cetain weapons do a number of low damage "sub-strikes" in a swing would be simplier (Try PVKII, they have something like this in there. PS: Their devs are taking over "Mod DNF" from NMRiH and Black Mesa)

This isn't such a bad idea. Epsecially with say the machete, but not so much the axe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would add more suspense to see some crawling zombies from under a car. So just when you think your safe, more zombies hands will be all over your shit. With the navigation it might be possible by having the nav marked as "Crawl" or something to tell normal zombies not to walk through there, just crawling ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0