• Announcements

    • Brentonator

      Forum Rules (Please Read)

      Hello everyone and welcome to the No More Room In Hell Forums! We greatly appreciate your interest and support. Please feel free to begin post and become a part of this community. But please make sure that you read and understand the following rules so things can stay as clean and as orderly as possible around here. These rules are expected to be follow by any and all members at all times. Disobeying these rules will result in disciplinary action by a moderator. #1. Off color remarks are acceptable but can be deemed inappropriate at the discretion of the moderators. #2. Flaming and disrespecting other members of this community or this mod is strictly prohibited. #3. Please do not post links relating to warez or illegal downloading. #4. No offensive content is to be posted (gore, dead babies, porn). #5. Please do not spam topics to increase your post count. #6. No excessively large signatures. Signatures that violate this will be modified. #7. Signatures are not to be used as a spamming tool. If your signature's sole purpose is to annoy or distract other members, it will be removed. #8. Please do your part to be as friendly, respectful, and helpful to anyone and everyone on this forum. #9. Your posts may be removed at any time at our sole discretion. #10. Remember the terms of your registration...a copy is posted below but may not represent the latest version of our terms of use. #11. No advertising other communities or products. Have fun.
Overwatch

Why are headshots not an instant kill?

30 posts in this topic

Seriously, this makes no sense. How is a 9mm round to the skull not a 100% instant kill? I mean, any basaltic weapon like a gun or a crossbow (hint, hint) should always be an instant kill. In the last game I played, I was aiming at the top of a Zed's head, and it took 2 rounds to kill him. Now, while this wouldn't be a problem in Left 4 Dead, it certainly is a problem in a game where ammo is so scarce. Please, Please, I beg you to fix this. This is what caused me to stop playing when this mod first came out. I thought it would be fixed in the next patch. I guess I was wrong.

Edited by Overwatch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple, the game becomes extremely easy. It used to be one shot one kill to the head for EVERY gun in the pre-alpha, but we found out it made high capacity guns extremely overpowered against the common slow zombie (in one case, several players with Beretta M9s could easily clean out an entire street of slow zombies without anyone dying, with no consequence), so we nerfed some guns and the corresponding ammo type (guns that use 9mm or .22LR for example need at least 2 headshots)

We have something in 1.05 which would make single headshot kills possible with some specific guns though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the point of having a bajillion different guns if they all kill in a single hit? Some guns fire faster but take more bullets and some fire slower but hit harder and take less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple, the game becomes extremely easy. It used to be one shot one kill to the head for EVERY gun in the pre-alpha, but we found out it made high capacity guns extremely overpowered against the common slow zombie (in one case, several players with Beretta M9s could easily clean out an entire street of slow zombies without anyone dying, with no consequence), so we nerfed some guns and the corresponding ammo type (guns that use 9mm or .22LR for example need at least 2 headshots)

We have something in 1.05 which would make single headshot kills possible with some specific guns though

And honestly, that's how it should be if you have a team that's working well together. Also, how is there no consequence for killing an entire street full of zombies? That's like, what, 60 zombies? Maybe more? That means it would take 60 rounds. And in a post apocalyptic world, ammo is a precious resource. If you want to make it where the game isn't so easy, why not institute some rule like in the Walking Dead fiction? Where every gunshot alerts more of the horde to your presence. Use your gun too much and zombies will start swarming you. That way you have to be careful with your shots, but you can still have one-shot kills.

It's just, I'm disappointed in the majority of mod and game developers. I can't find a single game/mod that takes a true, realistic approach to how it would be in a zombie outbreak. The zombies would be slow and somewhat easy to kill, but what they lack in strength they make up for in numbers. If you just went out of your way to kill every zed you saw, you'd run out of ammo real fast. Then you'd be screwed. You'd have to conserve your ammo, place your shots carefully, and sometimes just avoid them altogether.

Here's an idea, why not have a Realistic mode and a Normal mode? In Realistic mode, all headshots are one hit kills, body shots do 50% less damage, ammo is rarer, and there is a 100% infection rate. Meaning, every time you're grabbed, you are guaranteed to be infected. And there are no pills. I mean, how anti-climatic would Dawn of the Dead, or The Walking Dead been if there was some magic pill they could take to cure them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And honestly, that's how it should be if you have a team that's working well together. Also, how is there no consequence for killing an entire street full of zombies? That's like, what, 60 zombies? Maybe more? That means it would take 60 rounds. And in a post apocalyptic world, ammo is a precious resource. If you want to make it where the game isn't so easy, why not institute some rule like in the Walking Dead fiction? Where every gunshot alerts more of the horde to your presence. Use your gun too much and zombies will start swarming you. That way you have to be careful with your shots, but you can still have one-shot kills.

But on Cabin and Broadway, ammo already is a scarce resource and trying to clear an entire street is silly and not efficient. Also, where would you get sixty shots on Broadway? The way the map is set up you can't kill an entire street of zombies. And if you haven't noticed, Zombies prefer to chase survivors who shoot at them than ones who hack at them with a machete. It might just be me, but I think zombies kinda already do that to an extent.

It's just, I'm disappointed in the majority of mod and game developers. I can't find a single game/mod that takes a true, realistic approach to how it would be in a zombie outbreak. The zombies would be slow and somewhat easy to kill, but what they lack in strength they make up for in numbers. If you just went out of your way to kill every zed you saw, you'd run out of ammo real fast. Then you'd be screwed. You'd have to conserve your ammo, place your shots carefully, and sometimes just avoid them altogether.

Not all headshots are lethal. While most people don't live long enough for someone to consider calling an ambulance, people have survived being shot to the head. Reanimating diseased animals as complicated as us humans is not very realistic to start and because of that whoever writes the lore gets creative liberties. As for everything after the bolded part, is already true and to an even greater effect when it takes more than one shot to down the dead.

Here's an idea, why not have a Realistic mode and a Normal mode? In Realistic mode, all headshots are one hit kills, body shots do 50% less damage, ammo is rarer, and there is a 100% infection rate. Meaning, every time you're grabbed, you are guaranteed to be infected. And there are no pills. I mean, how anti-climatic would Dawn of the Dead, or The Walking Dead been if there was some magic pill they could take to cure them?

A 100% infection rate would be really annoying, especially without pills. And honestly, when you get infected in the beginning of cabin it can make for an intense game when you rush forward to grab pills and do the objectives so you have that slim chance to make it to the boat. The fact that it only pushes the infection off for a few minutes rather than cure it is why I like the pills, because you can still turn.

And honestly, the only weapons that aren't one hits are the Beretta, MP5, the Ruger .22 and shotguns if it's a glancing blow. While the .22 would be my choice weapon if it was an instant kill it would be one of the best weapons because of the weight to power ratio. If the MP5 on shot everything no one would use it because of it's rate of fire wasting shots. There's a reason I pick an M16 over an MP5, but wouldn't mind dropping the rifle for the sub-machine gun because I needed to loose weight or was low on ammo. There's a point where balance outweighs realism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Host or play on a server with realism mode.

In realism mode you can kill every zombie with 1 headshot even with 9mm and 22lr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was about to say, you are aware there already is a realism mode? lol XD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was about to say, you are aware there already is a realism mode? lol XD

Oh really? I guess I must of missed it.

Oh, and why is it that there is only 12 servers and 10 of them have pings reaching above 900?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh really? I guess I must of missed it.

Oh, and why is it that there is only 12 servers and 10 of them have pings reaching above 900?

There are 31 Servers showing in my server browser. pings ranging from 40 to 350.

Check your filter settings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

who needs guns. fire axe ftw.

Fist!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, how is there no consequence for killing an entire street full of zombies? That's like, what, 60 zombies? Maybe more? That means it would take 60 rounds. And in a post apocalyptic world, ammo is a precious resource. If you want to make it where the game isn't so easy, why not institute some rule like in the Walking Dead fiction? Where every gunshot alerts more of the horde to your presence. Use your gun too much and zombies will start swarming you. That way you have to be careful with your shots, but you can still have one-shot kills.

Even major games (as far as I have heard of) don't have this feature. While being able to technically do it, getting AI to work that way would be a pain in the rear end. Just look at how source '07 - '09 AI works already. It's ok, but not great compared to the latest and newer branches like L4D. Considering that it would be a nice feature, it would add more on the dev team as it is. They still have bugs to fix amongst other updates to do. With the already in place "overlord" system, we could see a horde attraction system like this to come as NMRIH shares similar ways of doing things.

It's just, I'm disappointed in the majority of mod and game developers. I can't find a single game/mod that takes a true, realistic approach to how it would be in a zombie outbreak.

What we are talking about is a special kind of game that fits a narrow niche. Only the "zombie experts" (if we could define such a term) would find a game to be great. How would you sell the game if each time you got bit or scratched you were infected? What if someone said they could climb but others said they can't? We set the game to allow zombies to swim, but wait, a large community wants an option to not allow them to. How would a small team (or a large one for that matter) deal with each and every point, while trying to balance other things like content, story, etc. While this may be possible for large studios over a course of a year, how would they pitch the game?

I'm not beating up your valid point, I'm just here to point out what I've learned over years.

The zombies would be slow and somewhat easy to kill, but what they lack in strength they make up for in numbers. If you just went out of your way to kill every zed you saw, you'd run out of ammo real fast. Then you'd be screwed. You'd have to conserve your ammo, place your shots carefully, and sometimes just avoid them altogether.

Funny enough, every time I play china town, one or two people always seem to die before they get out of the subway. The main reason for this is that they spend to much time hacking away at zombies and get swarmed. Being smart does pay off in this mod. The sad part is when you see people being stupid and shooting every zombie in sight. They don't realize it, but there's only so much ammo to go around, and when it's gone, the gun they have is now useless.

Here's an idea, why not have a Realistic mode and a Normal mode? In Realistic mode, all headshots are one hit kills, body shots do 50% less damage, ammo is rarer, and there is a 100% infection rate. Meaning, every time you're grabbed, you are guaranteed to be infected. And there are no pills. I mean, how anti-climatic would Dawn of the Dead, or The Walking Dead been if there was some magic pill they could take to cure them?

As explained, there is a "hardcore" mode available. I haven't noticed servers with it on however. The more advanced things you are talking about I'd like to see as well. The only problem is that the team is small compared to leading game studios and could take quite some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude, we already have gunshots and sounds attract zombies, that's been in the game since 1.0

Also you want huge numbers of zombies, and we just can't do that with the Source engine. We already push it as far as it can handle and we're lucky it holds up as well as it does at that level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't want to say anything but this mod is also lacking in both Cadillacs and dinosaurs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

who needs guns. fire axe ftw.

uhh no

machete is what you're looking for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude, we already have gunshots and sounds attract zombies, that's been in the game since 1.0

Also you want huge numbers of zombies, and we just can't do that with the Source engine. We already push it as far as it can handle and we're lucky it holds up as well as it does at that level.

Yea, I think he's looking for something along the lines of a L4D boomer vomit sort of horde.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The top question is: What would it be like in real-life, even for people having many guns? If there are MANY zombies, that means they all are runners. If there are A TON of zombies, they all were once runners.

Even if you have many bullets, what's gunna make you want to shoot EVERY zombie in the head, if many are QUICKLY shuffling/running towards you?

Another interesting fact for the idea zombies shuffle: IF a real-life person is shuffling to walk, it could be a sign of a stroke.

Chances are, you may result to shooting each one in the torso-section if there are too many. Smart people will shoot only close ones in the head... or go full auto on zombies BLOCKING THEIR ESCAPE! "GTFO OF THE WAY!" BRAdaddadadadadaddad~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also you want huge numbers of zombies, and we just can't do that with the Source engine. We already push it as far as it can handle and we're lucky it holds up as well as it does at that level.

SWITCH TO UE3 OR THE CRYENGINE 3.

Or employ smarter and smaller map design (I can already see the focus switch to Survival maps). If only valve'd offer the 'full access to the engine' jazz that UE3 and the Cryengine offer to 'Indie' devs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bullets goes through Zed's body

Most, not all. I know from experience that 22. rounds are very small, and lack the velocity, weight and shape to go clean through bone marrow or a human chest (I have not been shot bya 22., merely seen the aftermath). The dev. team have to take into account this, as well as with other calibers. This means that if they wanted to keep the game realistic, they would have to put into new/existing coding what calibers can penetrate which part of the body.

I don't know anything about coding, so I don't know if it's hard or not to perform such coding, but I would imagine that it would be resource demanding for them and the engine.

Also, if they are aiming for a true zombie apocalypse experience, 1 shot in the head with a 9mm and higher should be an instant kill if you are following the same sort of zombie identified in the "Zombie Survival Guide".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NMRiH team has already stated that if they would do another game, it would be on the cryengine.

I would highly suggest or hope they understand what I mean by "rennovations to their skill" as in being able to bring passion and only passion through passion: Speed and mistake so perfected that every creation was a beautiful mistake and thus better than the original idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason a headshot isn't a 100% kill is because in order to kill a zombie you need to completely shut down it's brain, the human body can handle being shot in certain parts of the brain and surviving hence why it's not a 100% insta kill but it CAN be an insta kill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right okay first thing, first post, I LOVE your MOD it is AWESOME, I have seen DayZ gameplay, I have played Killing Floor, L4D 1&2, pretty much every zombie "survival" game there is out there, waiting on The WarZ.

You have made one of my dreams come true, an oppressing yet extremely fun game to play with friends.

I'd like to share my view on firearms and the whole "yzedsnodiewhenheadshot" debate going on here.

Right Zombies have little memory (if at all) no feelings, the only brain activity is mostly sound / smell and maybe sight, then you have muscle and "hunger" (brackets because they seem to be forever hungry)

Based on this assumption in order to shutdown a zombie you need to hit the brain in those specific parts of the brain. I am no brain surgeon but I don't think those are located on the upper and outer layers of the brain, it seemed to me that thoses activities are commanded by the more central part of the brain and therefor blowing up the edges out wouldn't suffice to shut them off.

Second point on firearms.

Caliber isn't relevant to penetration (to some extent bear with me), a .45ACP doesn't go through zeds more than a 9mm bullet would, you also have to account for the jacket, if it's an FMJ (full metal jacket) well sure the bullet can go through a body it is DESIGNED to do so, it also inflicts less damage than a JHP (jacket hollow point) which are designed to penetrate the first body open up like a sunflower increasing the surface area thus causing more damage and at the same time slowing down faster to the point where it won't exit the first body.

See what I did there ?

Moral is, 1 or 2 bullets doesn't matter, .357mag SHOULD be one hit kill to the head because it would force the skull to collapse from the back, .45ACP could be 50/50% because you wouldn't necessarely cause enough of the brain to stur up inside the skull. 9mm could be 25% chance, a 9mm JHP won't necessarely go through the skull, i most likely would, but not all the time.

Bottom line is, you can't ask the game to be 100% accurate everywhere, because in all honesty, in my sense if it were to be 100% acurate I would be more concerned of how on earth can the player controlled characters keep a STEADY aim when a group of 50 zombies are walking/running towards them.

My 2cts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now