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Lt.Hargrove

Changes in Chinatown

26 posts in this topic

Right now I am watching real-life Chinatown by Google Street View. You know what? In the map there aren't enough chineese signs, chineese on the walls and cars. Maybe I am just blind, but I don't remember if I saw a single chineese letter in game. Only the lampions tell me that I am in chinatown. Few extra models\textures can do the job. I know that you have more important things to do, but this would IMHO add some immersion.

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And I was just watching footage of a real zombie outbreak, they have things bit different than in NMRiH.. oopsie, we can't call this zombie game anymore. Oh wait, it's fictional and a game..

Seriously though, I know Chinatown isn't the most realistic looking location and doesn't have as much signs and shit Chinatown does in real life. In real life you don't get framerate-issues if you clutter your scenes with tons of scenery. So, you must understand that games are usually created with themes in mind to have that look and feel of the location, but it doesn't have to be real and functioning one. Also, we do have "chinese" signs there:

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/2/1834/nmo_chinatown0004_watermarked.jpg

It's a rather old screenshot, but proves the point. I don't know why I even posted this because it seems so fucking stupid to mention/whine about stuff like this.

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Jesus, I don't whine. I just write what I think. I don't ORDER you to add 500 models per street to make it a replica. Don't take it personally, you seem irritated. I somewhat feel from some time that you just don't like me becouse some of my posts, but I don't attack your work. Chinatown is a good map, but few things wouldn't decrease the framerate to 10FPS.

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Jesus, I don't whine. I just write what I think. I don't ORDER you to add 500 models per street to make it a replica. Don't take it personally, you seem irritated. I somewhat feel from some time that you just don't like me becouse some of my posts, but I don't attack your work. Chinatown is a good map, but few things wouldn't decrease the framerate to 10FPS.

Yes, things start getting irritating when people say things like this over and over. Also, you don't want my reaction, don't post thoughts like that which basically DEMAND this kind of reaction. I don't personally hate you, I just don't like being noted about things you don't know how it all works. It actually does decrease fps to put few things here and there. Or what, people suddenly have new computers since first release and low-fps isn't a problem anymore? I still see and hear people saying how framerates dive in larger areas, which Chinatown does have. If I named the map something else, people wouldn't note me about inconsistency compared to real locations, because it just like it but isn't named after it. Well, people just have to deal with it.

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I'm with the LT on this, although I understand the limitations. Simply don't call it "Chinatown" when you can't make it look like Chinatown, if you know what I mean.

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So yea, this proves the point how anal and ungrateful people can be these days. Geez.. So to you guys only one place can be Chinatown and it is the one in New York currently? When there are many other Chinatowns in world, NYC's one is the only one which is the ultimate Chinatown looking place and anything not like it, is fake and gay? So, it means that if one doesn't have enough resources to recreate exactly same looking location, which doesn't really have rules set to how it must look and be, it couldn't called that because it isn't like the real place you think it has to be? Really? Are you serious? This is how it is these days? I dunno what else to say. Clearly you don't appreciate my work..

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I believe what Dman is trying to say is: China is in the heart, Mr. LtHargrove.

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Well, the map is set in NY, so people compare it to NY chinatown...

I see we unwittingly hurt your heart. I see there were many other people that told you this. Just leave everything as it is and lock this thread.

PS. Why every thread I make ends like this?

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Well on a side note where are all the asian zombies since this is chinatown and all.

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Well, the map is set in NY, so people compare it to NY chinatown...

I see we unwittingly hurt your heart. I see there were many other people that told you this. Just leave everything as it is and lock this thread.

PS. Why every thread I make ends like this?

Yes, they do compare it to NY chinatown.. but where is the people's imagination? Why can't something be named something without it being 100% like the name suggests to people?

Also, maybe you think you did it unwittingly, but I kind of expected people to understand that with limited resources, on a mod.. miracles cannot be done. Yes, I know where I could do better, but this all stuff doesn't help it all, because at some extent it's not up to me. There tons of variables in the process. My skill, my time, gameplay, team's limited resources to work on tons of unique props just for one map.. I thought people would just be like, "hey, this looks like chinatown. not exactly like real one, but still it's cool".. Your saying sounds to me that I shouldn't have attempted in the first place if I'm not doing it 100% right. Why call it Chinatown if it isn't one. Oh yea, games' levels are made to look like certain areas. Ah, who am I telling this anyway, no one cares.

And, to answer your first question in opening post, there are signs with "chinese" on them, lanterns and the gate leading to the area. I guess it's not enough these days when you can do so much more with graphics..

Also, we're in beta, things can change. If you know what I mean.

I can close/delete this thread in about 20min so who ever wanted to see my last response to it, could read it.

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Dude, it's my favorite map and the one I play the most, so I clearly appreciate your work, but the map's QUALITY is not the issue here.

All LT and I are saying is that the "Chinatown" theme doesn't really work. That is all. If you removed the lanterns and called it "ny_streets" or "dead_block" or whatever, it would still be the same map and this thread would only exist in a parallel dimension. Which would be ours then, since this thread exists here. Yeah, I threw in a mindfuck for you there. Anyway, it doesn't even matter which city this Chinatown is supposed to be in. The issue of this thread is believability, and this looks like you put a straw hat on a sexy white girl and called it asian porn. We're still jerking off to it; we're just not buying the whole "Asian" thing.

The point is: If you can't make a decent Chinatown theme because of technical limitations, simply don't.

Again, this is my favorite map. It is diverse, it is long, the horror atmosphere is great, it looks great, it has a respawn point (albeit buggy atm), a great finale, and last but not least, I got a thing for urban settings.

I'm just not buying the "Chinatown" theme, that's all. (Well, except for a few nitpicks like "Why would they put the lever for the ladder of the barricade in there?", but that's about it.).

Take a breath and don't be so defensive, sotapoika. You did a great job, and we're simply offering CREATIVE criticism concerning a minor aspect of your map that doesn't even have anything to do with its gameplay. We're neither bitching nor ungrateful. I mean, think about it - would we even be having this conversation if we didn't love the game and care for the map?

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agatsu/ Lt.Hargrove the source engine 2007 build got soooooo many grapical limitations if they wanted to look more chinese they would do it, but they also have to think abouth the engine limitations that im also strugling with my own map with, stop whining abouth other ppl maps if you can't go above there skill

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If we wanted a more 'chinatown' feel, we would probably do it by adding a shit ton of other signs, laterns, and more. However, we can't. Why? This type of source engine. Sotapoika went with a unique theme, better then just having some type of NY street, and he pulled it off quite nicely even with limitations. Seriously, if we wanted to make this more chinatown themed, we could, but gameplay would go to utter shit.

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Chinatown3.jpg

sanfrancisco_002p.jpg

Assuming you really want it to look like Chinatown, ask yourself how many models related to China would be needed?? I'd say alot. I know that's not what you're asking but what's chinatown withouth it's packed streets when you really try to make it look like real in your map?

There'll always be something to improve but I think you're asking the impossible. Especially because of the mapsize and Sota's schedule i guess, considering he's also working on a nms_map and another project If i'm not mistaken. Same goes for the prop modellers, we need Morgoth to lend some co-workers of his considering he already picked the very few prop modellers of this forum. (I'm just joking :rolleyes:)

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Im kind of on the fence here, but I suppose one thing to consider is that Sota may not want to do much more work on the map as he's focusing on something else/bored with it (looking at his developer blog, you can see it was in development for a while, and had a fair few iterations/changes made). How close is the Chinatown to the 'limit'? It's fairly big and detailed as it is, but would a couple more decals/2d models throw it over the edge?

Don't know if this'd be a viable method of doing those hung decorations, but could you add some 2d models/decals to the point_rope entity (like the tinsleish looking stuff, the flyers and banners in Themanofwars pictures).

And thanks to this thread I found this song:

While searching for this one:

:blink:

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If we wanted a more 'chinatown' feel, we would probably do it by adding a shit ton of other signs, laterns, and more. However, we can't. Why? This type of source engine. Sotapoika went with a unique theme, better then just having some type of NY street, and he pulled it off quite nicely even with limitations. Seriously, if we wanted to make this more chinatown themed, we could, but gameplay would go to utter shit.

But that's my point - if you can't pull a theme off, simply don't. It's just cosmetics, after all. Chinatown is one of the first three maps ever for NMRiH, so a "normal" urban setting would have been totally okay, rather than trying to force a theme on it that can't be pulled off properly due to technical limitations.

Take away the Chinese assets and the map still looks great, and you even freed some resources. Yay.

Then maybe there's even enough resources left to add something like a thunderstorm with heavy rain, or thick fog (which goes well with the docks), or snow or ashes falling down in the streets, and you got a theme... albeit not "Chinatown".

@Morgoth

I wanted to tell you this back when you threw a fit when people dared utter constructive criticism of your project, but because I really appreciate how much work you guys put into the awesome and impressive RE project, I let it go. But fuck it, you need to hear this:

Why do you consider any kind of criticism to be "whining", "bitching" or "being ungrateful"? I could just as well tell you that you are ungrateful for constructive criticism, and to "Stop whining about criticism!", if you know what I mean.

Do you seriously think I'm spending my time thinking about the game and writing on this forum just to bitch, whine and be generally ungrateful? No, I'm here because I love the game and I want it to be as good as it can be. That's where constructive criticism comes into play. And if you can't even deal with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, neither the internet nor the position of team leader are for you. Are you open to constructive criticism from your team members? If yes, you must consider everyone outside your team to be morons. If not, you are not a good team leader; you're a dictator. Which is it?

You got an awesome project going on there, Morgoth, but you have to be able to appreciate valid, constructive criticism, not throw a fit every time someone points out something in your work that could be improved. I mean, game companies pay huge amounts of money to fly in "consultants" just so those can tell them what's WRONG with their game, and make suggestions on how to make it better. That should tell you something.

tl;dr

Learn how to take criticism, and consider educating yourself on how the whole "public relations" thing works.

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Sorry for this, but I'm not here to advertising.

I'm a Taiwanese mapper and I made a CSS map that features Taiwanese street an year ago.

Some screenshots

Since I only made a half of the block and almost blow up the source engine already, I know how hard to make an Asian theme map realistic. Anyway, that Chinatown map is large and there are specific items, models.... with full of zombies and still don't blow up the engine. That's great enough!

Edited by CXX AL

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Im kind of on the fence here, but I suppose one thing to consider is that Sota may not want to do much more work on the map as he's focusing on something else/bored with it (looking at his developer blog, you can see it was in development for a while, and had a fair few iterations/changes made). How close is the Chinatown to the 'limit'? It's fairly big and detailed as it is, but would a couple more decals/2d models throw it over the edge?

It's as borderline to the border as it can get; we had to cut out pieces of the map and reduce detail considerably for it to even run without crashing our game when you first load up the level

That's pretty much the issue with most of our objective maps, we're forced to make concessions with the extremely old SDK 2007 engine in order to have a relatively stable game

nms_ maps don't have that same issue since they aren't exactly sprawling maps with several dozen possible combinations of entities/objectives/etc happening at once

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I'd just like to point out that the pictures you find of Chinatown on google (or whatever) aren't representative of the entire area. I've always just assumed the map was out of the flashy tourist spots and more along the backstreets. Also, I really don't see a point in having all the bright neon shit if the majority of the power is out. Just my 11 cents.

A better complaint would be that Chinatown isn't on the waterfront...

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Every time someone wishes to complain, he/she should start looking into source SDK, Hammer, 3d Max, Photoshop and everything that will help the development process.

Don't ask what NMRiH can do for you, ask what YOU can do for NMRiH.

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It's fine, it's dark who cares.

What we are missing are Chinese people;

Can we add a new model that looks like this?

With a rice hat?

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