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ytman

A Couple Mapping Gimmicks

10 posts in this topic

When I first saw this game I was very impressed with a lot that was behind it. I very much enjoyed the seemingly high dificulty, the VoiP features, and the general lethality of the zombies en masse. Actually, I was most impressed with the fact that you were able to have wire-physics 'puzzles' (as any attempt I had made for doing that in MP Source games proved the thing was broken). In anycase I have a few ideas that perhaps certain mappers would toy with in the very likely case I'm unable to contribute them myself.

-Separation: All current maps have players spawn in the same area and require them, in general, to follow a very linear (albeit random) path. Why not change this up? Have many spawn points spread through out some maps that require clever thinking to have the players regroup and organize? What if you made two groups that had to progress seperately to succeed?

-Objective Cued Horde: Thinking about Broadway's two story diner. Have a random chance that a horde spawns and break in en masse once the survivors trip a trigger.

-Unspoken Puzzels: I love the "Turn on the Sprinklers" objective. It works and does NOT tell you how to do it, but its obvious to anyone who has a brain cell. Imagine a section where you need to get over a fence, bridge a gap between two buildings' second floor windows.

-Failing Objectives: A mod we all should be familiar with, ZP!S, has a custom map Norad that has a back up contingency incase the first objective is lost. What if, an objective isn't fulfilled quickly enough, that it locks out and starts a new one?

-Logic Puzzels: Somehow, some way, there was a wonderful puzzel in ZP!S's custom map REsub.

@ 2:54 you see a logic puzzel that required input to make all the white dots blue to proceed. While not nessicarily so arbitrary, why not pepper some of these in your maps?

-The Map as an Enemy: Similiar to "Unspoken Puzzels" but more like "Traps". To avoid a cheap death make it something simple like an electrified fence... burning house...

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The map i'm working on has seperate spawns, it's not really much of a deal because (YES) it will be survival(already changed my mind, again) and will probably have 2 spawn points but yes it would be nice to have more maps having this, random hordes appearing and attacking you would work really great on games like L4d but imagine how that would workout if you have a melee weapon and not every one or two hits can kill one zombie, now imagine multiple zombies coming to you ( while running ) it would be really hard.

Electrified fences are a nice idea and should really be considered as a nice detail on any map that has fences ;)

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Some good ideas, I'll add a few:

Condemned esque weapon pickup e.g. instead of just having weapons laying around, you could rip pipes, 2x4's or whatever from walls etc (could be randomised each round, e.g. an area that is damaged some rounds and has pipes etc sticking out, other rounds there'd be no damage and you'd find these weapons elsewhere)

It'd also be good if you could throw weapons, especially if you could pick up bricks/bottles/random debris and use them as either a light, perishable melee weapon or just throw them. Basically, more interaction with the environment.

A workbench or something in spawn where you could cobble together makeshift weapons out off stuff lying around, or modify existing weapons. (basic example, taping a torch to a rifle/shotgun)

(may do this in my own map) puncturing fuel tanks on vehicles and having to fill up a fuel canister that way, basically having to siphon fuel as part of an objective either with a tube or by puncturing the tank with a screwdriver.

Seperation: would love to see this implemented one way or another, though I imagine it'd need a lot of refinement. I was going to suggest conflicting objectives for different survivor groups, but players would just end up shooting eachother on sight. Im hoping that AI might be able to fill this gap someway or another.

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Seperation: would love to see this implemented one way or another, though I imagine it'd need a lot of refinement. I was going to suggest conflicting objectives for different survivor groups, but players would just end up shooting eachother on sight. Im hoping that AI might be able to fill this gap someway or another.

There are ways to make survivor groups compete without making them hostile with one another. The simplest method I could imagine just involves two separate spawn locations and two separate evac locations. Only one of the evac locations can be triggered, and the other group gets overrun by running out of time. Pretty believable, since the helicopter is constantly running out of fuel and would likely go rescue the first people to make contact. Each spawn location is closer to one of the evac locations than the other, so each group of survivors have an easier to get to, preferred evac. The two paths for each survivor group are separated by a traversable, but dangerous route. Say, someplace dark.

The mechanism that prevents the survivors from simply trying to kill each other is that there are no hard set separate "teams." If survivors from one team get close enough to fight the other group, they're already closer to the other group's evac location than their original evac. They would be better off joining up and switching groups than trying to fight them. In fact, there's nothing stopping the survivors from crossing over and working together to get to the same evac, except that it's very dangerous for the group that crosses over. And then, there's always the fun that would come from the fact that both survivor groups share the same radio frequency...

So you end up with two groups of survivors with a lot of separate options. Do they want to work together to get to the same evac? If so, who has to risk the crossing? Do they compete and see who gets there first? If so, do they rush as fast as they can, or do they take a slower time and hope the other group dies before they make it? One group may even lie, and say they are crossing over to work together and for the other group to wait, only to rush onward to their own objective.

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There are ways to make survivor groups compete without making them hostile with one another. The simplest method I could imagine just involves two separate spawn locations and two separate evac locations. Only one of the evac locations can be triggered, and the other group gets overrun by running out of time. Pretty believable, since the helicopter is constantly running out of fuel and would likely go rescue the first people to make contact. Each spawn location is closer to one of the evac locations than the other, so each group of survivors have an easier to get to, preferred evac. The two paths for each survivor group are separated by a traversable, but dangerous route. Say, someplace dark.

The mechanism that prevents the survivors from simply trying to kill each other is that there are no hard set separate "teams." If survivors from one team get close enough to fight the other group, they're already closer to the other group's evac location than their original evac. They would be better off joining up and switching groups than trying to fight them. In fact, there's nothing stopping the survivors from crossing over and working together to get to the same evac, except that it's very dangerous for the group that crosses over. And then, there's always the fun that would come from the fact that both survivor groups share the same radio frequency...

So you end up with two groups of survivors with a lot of separate options. Do they want to work together to get to the same evac? If so, who has to risk the crossing? Do they compete and see who gets there first? If so, do they rush as fast as they can, or do they take a slower time and hope the other group dies before they make it? One group may even lie, and say they are crossing over to work together and for the other group to wait, only to rush onward to their own objective.

Great suggestion, I was thinking of something similar for one of my maps...

bastard stole my idea...

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On the map broadway the gunstore is always very sparse in actual guns and ammo. What about if it was random event that the gunstore was boarded up completely to preven tit from being looted in the first place. Say that in the random event that the gunstore is boarded up, then you would need multiple people bashing away at the boards in order to get inside before the zombies get to you; And since the gunstore is boarded up then the reward for teamwork in tearing down the boards together would be that the gunstore is much more rich in guns & ammo.

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Great suggestion, I was thinking of something similar for one of my maps...

bastard stole my idea...

Haha. That would require me knowing how to make maps... (T_T)

You should totally make it. 'Twould be awesome! d(^_^d)

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Some good ideas, I'll add a few:

Condemned esque weapon pickup e.g. instead of just having weapons laying around, you could rip pipes, 2x4's or whatever from walls etc (could be randomized each round, e.g. an area that is damaged some rounds and has pipes etc sticking out, other rounds there'd be no damage and you'd find these weapons elsewhere).

It'd also be good if you could throw weapons, especially if you could pick up bricks/bottles/random debris and use them as either a light, perishable melee weapon or just throw them. Basically, more interaction with the environment.

I agree. Condemned had a wonderful way to justify weapons and combat. Now, of course, the only way this really worked was that there were times of pure necessity... because your weapon just broke on that hobo's face. To be very useful such weapons should degrade (limits should prevent metal weapons from breaking...maybe warping and dealing less damage).

In a zombie panic map I was working on I had a house that had a metal pipe weapon spawn seemingly attached to a bare pipe system. It was behind a movable ceiling block and started in a 'physics' off state. But I definitely love the 'degrading' idea of melee weapons.

A workbench or something in spawn where you could cobble together makeshift weapons out off stuff lying around, or modify existing weapons. (basic example, taping a torch to a rifle/shotgun)

Cool idea. Makes sense in an apocalyptic world... a less crazy version of the model from dead rising? I'd support this in another stand alone thread.

Separation: would love to see this implemented one way or another, though I imagine it'd need a lot of refinement. I was going to suggest conflicting objectives for different survivor groups, but players would just end up shooting each other on sight. Im hoping that AI might be able to fill this gap someway or another.

I'd love for a potential 'conspirator' role... no idea how to solidly interpret it... I'd love for AI humans to be able to pose potential threats (and allies).

There are ways to make survivor groups compete without making them hostile with one another. The simplest method I could imagine just involves two separate spawn locations and two separate evac locations. Only one of the evac locations can be triggered, and the other group gets overrun by running out of time. Pretty believable, since the helicopter is constantly running out of fuel and would likely go rescue the first people to make contact. Each spawn location is closer to one of the evac locations than the other, so each group of survivors have an easier to get to, preferred evac. The two paths for each survivor group are separated by a traversable, but dangerous route. Say, someplace dark.

The mechanism that prevents the survivors from simply trying to kill each other is that there are no hard set separate "teams." If survivors from one team get close enough to fight the other group, they're already closer to the other group's evac location than their original evac. They would be better off joining up and switching groups than trying to fight them. In fact, there's nothing stopping the survivors from crossing over and working together to get to the same evac, except that it's very dangerous for the group that crosses over. And then, there's always the fun that would come from the fact that both survivor groups share the same radio frequency...

I like. Depends on the set up but it could even ruin those peoples who 'Run' ahead and kinda 'just do' the mission. These players who just 'try to win' would potentially ruin it for half of the survivors if they do not try to work with the others. About radio frequencies... if possible... and certainly the magician who worked this wonderful VoiP coding could... it would be amazing to have an adjustable radio with multiple channels... even an on/off button and volume?

So you end up with two groups of survivors with a lot of separate options. Do they want to work together to get to the same evac? If so, who has to risk the crossing? Do they compete and see who gets there first? If so, do they rush as fast as they can, or do they take a slower time and hope the other group dies before they make it? One group may even lie, and say they are crossing over to work together and for the other group to wait, only to rush onward to their own objective.

Really cool. I think there should be options to harass each group as well... the potential of offensive action should loom over their heads.

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Just make it more advantageous for the two groups to work together. Of course they could duke it out, but it would be a waste of ammo, or the potential conflicting points could be the most hectic.

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