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Moody

SIR with PIE rounds?

79 posts in this topic

SIR (Standard Infantry Rifle):

In World War Z, as the war on the undead progressed, things changed from survive, to maintain, to attack. And when the stage changed to attack, the SIR was made. It is a wood and steel (<---- maybe iron?) rifle that was only semi automatic, and never jammed. No matter what. It is supposed to have a larger than average recoil though. It has exchangeable barrels that come in short, medium, and long lengths so. It is also dead accurate. That's about as specific as the book went. I imagine it had some kind of iron sight, because red dot sights require batteries and complicated equipment that lacked when they started the offensive. No plastic at all. Use your imagination. Keep in mind that the barrels must be easy to change, it must have no plastic looking parts, and it must have a sturdy looking mechanism for when you think of a design (if you do). I bet that the clip size is 10-20 rounds. Most accurate high power rifles have lower clip capacity.

PIE:

I forgot what the initials stand for, but it is a special bullet that was designed to break into searing hot fragments upon entry to the body. Since it breaks up into fragments, it doesn't come out the other end. This would fry the brain and prevent a big mess from being made (ie infected brain and blood flying everywhere). Soldiers also reported that if the bullet hits the head (which it is usually intended to do so), the eyes of the zombie glow red from the hot fragments inside. It is just the ultimate anti-zombie bullet to go along with the ultimate anti-zombie gun.

Do you guys think it should be implemented? If it is I understand that it might be put in as a specialty for a "seek and destroy" game mode where you start off as army personnel with the objective of clearing the place of zombies. It will not be found because it is a military grade weapon, and it was only made after the infection has been around for a few years. So if it is implemented it should be later in the game with a different game mode.

Anyways, just my 2 cents, what are yours?

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From my understanding, most guns will kill a zombie in one well placed head shot. So the extra effort to add any other ammo effect would be pointless.

They could just name the rounds in the weapon bios or something.

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From my understanding, most guns will kill a zombie in one well placed head shot. So the extra effort to add any other ammo effect would be pointless.

They could just name the rounds in the weapon bios or something.

The SIR is an accurate and amazingly reliable gun, but only semi automatic. The perfect zombie killer. The PIE round is mean't to fragment so there's less of a chance of a superficial blow to the head AND so more importantly infected blood and the like is not spread everywhere, making BS (battlefield sanitization) much less dangerous by spreading the virus less.

I do not believe the mod will be including this weapon as it is fictional and this is not world war Z. It is different in story and infection.

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The SIR will not be part of the mod, as the initial release of the mod covers the first hours to days of the outbreak. As we release updates to it the timeline will move forward.

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You got a point, but you must admit that in a time like this, a new gun will be made that is specialized for zombie killing.

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You got a point, but you must admit that in a time like this, a new gun will be made that is specialized for zombie killing.

Not within the first few days. Probably not for months or years.

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I don't think there would be enough of a difference between a "PIE" bullet and a 5.56x45mm NATO entering the zombie's brain to warrant resources being diverted to someone's pet project.

I mean basically any bullet into a zombie's head= a dead zombie, right?

The only change in weaponry for the military during the outbreak that i'd imagine is that they probably start fixing bayonets more often. (not that fixing bayonets is common practice right now)

Edited by Eknytz

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PIE rounds make for no clean up. A regular round usually comes out the other end of the head, which spreads the infected brains and blood everywhere. This means that if that tissue gets in an open wound it causes an infection. With PIE round a costly disinfectant team is not needed. All you do is shoot, and not worry about clean up. In a game, clean up doesn't matter, but in the long run clean up does.

I realize it wouldn't be made until years after, and I also said that I realized that it would not be in the first release because I know that the first release is based on the first days/weeks of the crisis. But as updates progress, I think it would be a good idea to have the perfect anti-zombie weapon implemented somehow. It only makes sense that in some point, some country/military will invent a gun that gets the job done.

But, like I said, it is definitely something that would be much later in the game.

Edited by Moody

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PIE rounds make for no clean up. A regular round usually comes out the other end of the head, which spreads the infected brains and blood everywhere. This means that if that tissue gets in an open wound it causes an infection. With PIE round a costly disinfectant team is not needed. All you do is shoot, and not worry about clean up. In a game, clean up doesn't matter, but in the long run clean up does.

I realize it wouldn't be made until years after, and I also said that I realized that it would not be in the first release because I know that the first release is based on the first days/weeks of the crisis. But as updates progress, I think it would be a good idea to have the perfect anti-zombie weapon implemented somehow. It only makes sense that in some point, some country/military will invent a gun that gets the job done.

But, like I said, it is definitely something that would be much later in the game.

Another thing is this is suppose to be a realism mod and "PIE" rounds simply do not exist.

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Another thing is this is suppose to be a realism mod and "PIE" rounds simply do not exist.

Well don't turn to that because ZOMBIES DON'T EXIST! A specialized round would be INVENTED to combat the zombie menace. Like Maxx said in maps taking place later in the infection there would probably be a specialized round for killing the undead.

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Here's the problem with this concept. We all know the AK series to be extremely reliable- which they are. They are also not very accurate- as the series has developed, this has been addressed, but it is still not as accurate as most Western battle rifles, like, say, an L1A1 or a M16A2. The reason for this reliability is the tolerances; the AK has extremely loose tolerances. This means that it is very reliable- and inaccurate. You see, the M16 has relativley tight tolerances- this makes it far more accurate (you can take a lot of headshots from long distances, if you're competent- there was an investigation into this at Falluja, because the number of headshots was very high, and they thought the marines were executing people.) Therefore, for the SIR to have AK-like reliability and M16 (or maybe even M14?) like accuracy, is...difficult to perceive. I could obviously be wrong, because my knowledge in this field as not as high as I'd like it to be, but from my understanding of things, it is hard to have a very accurate and supremely reliable gun that is not relatively simple.

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Here's the problem with this concept. We all know the AK series to be extremely reliable- which they are. They are also not very accurate- as the series has developed, this has been addressed, but it is still not as accurate as most Western battle rifles, like, say, an L1A1 or a M16A2. The reason for this reliability is the tolerances; the AK has extremely loose tolerances. This means that it is very reliable- and inaccurate. You see, the M16 has relativley tight tolerances- this makes it far more accurate (you can take a lot of headshots from long distances, if you're competent- there was an investigation into this at Falluja, because the number of headshots was very high, and they thought the marines were executing people.) Therefore, for the SIR to have AK-like reliability and M16 (or maybe even M14?) like accuracy, is...difficult to perceive. I could obviously be wrong, because my knowledge in this field as not as high as I'd like it to be, but from my understanding of things, it is hard to have a very accurate and supremely reliable gun that is not relatively simple.

The M16 design has an overcomplicated mechanism. Also the AK is quite accurate, contrary to popular belief. The only difference is actually the recoil. The AK has much more kick than an M16 as an m16 uses an extremely small bullet. The .223....5.56. The m16 has no stopping power whatsoever. The AK however does. I'd like to point out though that even the AK round would be hard pressed to be considered a "medium" hunting round. It is still a very light round.

This has been copypasted from wiki. "The primary criticism of direct impingement is that fouling and debris from expended gunpowder is blown directly into the breech. As the superheated combustion gas travels down the tube, it expands and cools, not unlike an aerosol can cooling when depressurized. This cooling causes vaporized matter to condense as it cools depositing a much greater volume of solids into the operating components of the action. The increased fouling can cause malfunctions if the rifle is not cleaned as frequently as should be. The amount of sooting deposits tends to vary with powder specification, caliber, and gas port design."

This fault is what causes the unreliability. It must be cleaned properly and regularly to avoid this. You are right about the AK47 clearances affected accuracy, although they do so little harm its barely applicable. Also the sights on an M16 are complicated and at close range you have to compensate for them quite a bit. The difference in accuracy between the AK and the M16 is primarily due to the slower muzzle velocity and a shorter distance between the sights of the AK-47. AK-47 sights allow the shooter to shoot with both eyes open and to quickly acquire moving targets at medium range and are much easier to adjust.

I am slightly biased though. The M16 is an overcomplicated, unreliable weapon. It is extremely accurate however and if you clean it regularly it will rarely jam on you. Of course you also have to take into account the unreliability of the power of the weapon. As stated by a delta operator himself in Black Hawk Down (The Book) "When you shoot someone you want them to stay down, and our weapons simply did not provide that."

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Well don't turn to that because ZOMBIES DON'T EXIST! A specialized round would be INVENTED to combat the zombie menace. Like Maxx said in maps taking place later in the infection there would probably be a specialized round for killing the undead.

Well this mod is supposed to be realism in the scope of a zombie outbreak.

Just because zombies are fictional doesn't give license to just not think, realistically I do not think the military would develop a specialized zombie ammuniton round/weapon just so some cleanup team doesn't have to get all gooey -The military would not even select a replacement assault rifle to replace the M16/M4, and i'm quoting unless there was a "100%+ improvement" over the current weapon.

Maxx also did not say that items like this would be in the mods, he just said it does not fit the mod (at least at the moment) because the mod takes place within the first hours.

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The M16 design has an overcomplicated mechanism. Also the AK is quite accurate, contrary to popular belief. The only difference is actually the recoil. The AK has much more kick than an M16 as an m16 uses an extremely small bullet. The .223....5.56. The m16 has no stopping power whatsoever. The AK however does. I'd like to point out though that even the AK round would be hard pressed to be considered a "medium" hunting round. It is still a very light round.

This has been copypasted from wiki. "The primary criticism of direct impingement is that fouling and debris from expended gunpowder is blown directly into the breech. As the superheated combustion gas travels down the tube, it expands and cools, not unlike an aerosol can cooling when depressurized. This cooling causes vaporized matter to condense as it cools depositing a much greater volume of solids into the operating components of the action. The increased fouling can cause malfunctions if the rifle is not cleaned as frequently as should be. The amount of sooting deposits tends to vary with powder specification, caliber, and gas port design."

This fault is what causes the unreliability. It must be cleaned properly and regularly to avoid this. You are right about the AK47 clearances affected accuracy, although they do so little harm its barely applicable. Also the sights on an M16 are complicated and at close range you have to compensate for them quite a bit. The difference in accuracy between the AK and the M16 is primarily due to the slower muzzle velocity and a shorter distance between the sights of the AK-47. AK-47 sights allow the shooter to shoot with both eyes open and to quickly acquire moving targets at medium range and are much easier to adjust.

I am slightly biased though. The M16 is an overcomplicated, unreliable weapon. It is extremely accurate however and if you clean it regularly it will rarely jam on you. Of course you also have to take into account the unreliability of the power of the weapon. As stated by a delta operator himself in Black Hawk Down (The Book) "When you shoot someone you want them to stay down, and our weapons simply did not provide that."

No no, I mean inaccurate compared to some Western weapons like the M16 or M14. I know that it is fairly accurate out to 200-300m, which is more than a normal rifleman will need, but it still isn't as accurate as something like an M16.

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No no, I mean inaccurate compared to some Western weapons like the M16 or M14. I know that it is fairly accurate out to 200-300m, which is more than a normal rifleman will need, but it still isn't as accurate as something like an M16.

The M16 is more accurate but the sights are more complicated and hard to take quick accurate shots with and hard to acquire a target with. An experienced rifleman would usually prefer the AK47's sights for combat.

And ekyntz your not listening to maxx dumbass. He said the first maps occur earlier in the outbreak, later there will be maps that occur later in the "zombie war" The mod takes place in a zombie outbreak, but in no specific time. The earlier maps will begin earlier and the later maps will be later into the outbreak.

Second the Military would definitely replace the M16 or at least modify it. They are already looking into several rifles to replace it, I'm sure a zombie outbreak would cause them to replace this terrible weapon. They'd have to remove the burst/automatic fire, strengthen the weapon and remove all those flimsy plastic parts. They would have to redo the action to increase reliability.

Also "they wouldn't use a different type of ammunition to make it easier to clean" is horrendously wrong. Your handling HIGHLY infectious material and in an outbreak of this magnitude they wouldn't have the resources to equip clean up teams with HAZMAT suits and everything. Most likely it would just be soldiers in their MOPP gear. It would be highly important to keep what few soldiers that are organized and alive uninfected. The living are going to need every advantage possible to survive the war with the dead. Simple as that.

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I'm sure a zombie outbreak would cause them to replace this terrible weapon. They'd have to remove the burst/automatic fire, strengthen the weapon and remove all those flimsy plastic parts. They would have to redo the action to increase reliability.

And you are qualified to make that judgment?

There's also no need for name calling, and this BS about them replacing the M16 series has been going on since the 80's and every single time they come up with something it gets turned down.

Also, while we are making up fake technology like the "PIE" that does not exist why don't we throw in other weaponry that does not exist.

I propose this alien ray gun because the government would obviously invent it out of thin air in the outbreak of a zombie infestation as the laser beam would seal the wound shut stopping the EXTREMELTY F**KING INFECTIOUS MATTER from contaminating up teams!!!!!!!

wetaraygun.jpg

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And you are qualified to make that judgment?

There's also no need for name calling, and this BS about them replacing the M16 series has been going on since the 80's and every single time they come up with something it gets turned down.

Also, while we are making up fake technology like the "PIE" that does not exist why don't we throw in other weaponry that does not exist.

I propose this alien ray gun because the government would obviously invent it out of thin air in the outbreak of a zombie infestation as the laser beam would seal the wound shut stopping the EXTREMELTY F**KING INFECTIOUS MATTER from contaminating up teams!!!!!!!

wetaraygun.jpg

No need for douchebaggery sarcasm. You obviously don't grasp my arguement for instead of countering my many points as you've simply succumbed to retarded sarcasm.

The reason they have not replaced the M16 yet is they want a very good weapon that they can use for much time to come. They don't want to spend the insane amounts of money to replace every primary weapon just to discover its not that good.

I'm going to explain this as simply as possible so even you can grasp it. HUMANITY INVENTS NEW TOOLS/WEAPONS AS AN ADAPTATION TO THE ENEMY THEY FACE. THEY WOULD INVENT THE PIE TO BETTER COMBAT THE ZOMBIE MENACE.

Do you understand now? Or are you gonna say something even more retarded?

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THEY WOULD INVENT THE PIE TO BETTER COMBAT THE ZOMBIE MENACE.

Do you understand now? Or are you gonna say something even more retarded?

I don't think it's possible to top that first statement.

Edited by weege.

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I think your an idiot.

....I also think I'm done here, at least with that middleschooler.

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I think your an idiot.

....I also think I'm done here, at least with that middleschooler.

Edit: Sorry I went a little overboard, but don't be a prick. I'll post my PM in here.

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So cute how you are all upstanding military experts.

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I don't think I'm being unrealistic. The PIE rounds don't really matter because in the game the long run doesn't matter. For the 2nd time, I understand that if it is considered, it will be implemented in a much later version of the game. I'm not saying it has to be exactly like the SIR in WWZ, but is it really that unrealistic for someone to invent a gun that is better suited against zombies when the whole of mankind is threatened? I don't see why you are comparing my idea to a god damn alien lazer gun. It uses bullets. You know, the ones we use in guns today. And its a gun, you know, kinda like every gun that is out there, but different, so that it is better than an m16/m4 on a zombie.

I don't really care about PIE rounds, those can be left out. In a real life zombie outbreak it would probably help, but in a game there's no need for that. The reason they would be invented is to prevent infected material spewed from a bullet going through a zombie's head from getting into an open wound. maybe a year later a girl trips and scrapes her arm on the spot. But because of the barely lingering residue, she is now infected. And if you are following the basic rules of WWZ and the Zombie Survival Guide, the virus is VERY infectious.

I am not asking for a super uber lazer zapper that kills zombies in one shot no matter what. And frankly, you post about that is pretty stupid and ignorant. This is just a gun, that is extremely reliable, and accurate. Considering its accurate, it probably has a higher caliber of bullet than an m16, thus making more recoil than usual. Even in a zombie outbreak, there are geniuses out there. My main point is that it is not an unrealistic request, and that I understand that if it is included it would be in a much later release. I'm not asking for a gun that is 100% better than all the other guns, but in such a crisis, every % helps. It doesn't even have to be named SIR. It's just the idea of the gun that I am proposing.

Edited by Moody

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