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CalebMichal

[WIP] Latest Map Journal

61 posts in this topic

WOW! Ok. Well I had a whole bunch of stuff written out with screenshots but hit backspace thinking my cursors was in the text field! :mad:


...So. Anyways, here's a screenshot of the newly accessible outside area. That doorway with the board is Zone B. Zombies spawn from outside of that break in the fence to the right.

FwqI5Nm.jpg

Here's an album with a bunch of screenshots. There's a few new areas and things you guys haven't seen yet. I'll title the pics at Imgur to give you some info on the map.

ALBUM: https://imgur.com/a/m1kil

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I really don't know how you capture the feeling of living environments so well. Like, diggity dayum son. How do you do it? What's your inspiration?

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I really don't know how you capture the feeling of living environments so well. Like, diggiy dayum son. How do you do it? What's your inspiration?

The area with the hole in the ceiling is inspired by concept art from The Last of Us. I'd say the environments in that game are a huge inspiration and motivator.

The rest of the map I spent allot of time staring at an area wondering about what would make sense and if it feels right. It can get frustrating. I stopped working on the map for 2 weeks because I got to an area where I couldn't think of anything. I was tapped out.

Then a couple guys (ThoughT and durkhaz, I think) commented on a submission I made to the Map Pimpage thread and how I should finish it and not let it go to waste which motivated me to pick it back up, and have been working on it since.

Edit: Here's the concept art:

bNL2eXa.jpg

NaK0mgo.jpg

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After looking through your imgur album, all I can say is:

HOLY SHIT CALEB

HOLY. SHIT. CALEB

HOLY. SHIT. CALEB.

HOLY S*** CALEB.

You put so much detail into prop placement and lighting its mind blowing, that must have taken a while... The planning for the whole map must have consumed an equally large amount of time! Glad to see you continually improving "dynamic survival", it's like the Territorial Control(a TF2 gamemode very few people map for) of NMRiH :P

Heres a few comments on some of your pics:

https://i.imgur.com/JwyGFef.jpg - Great color contrast

https://i.imgur.com/EBwdSjd.jpg - Maybe you can make the floor a different texture? Its weird to have that plywood thing there. Same goes for the ceiling, but people will probably notice that less.

https://i.imgur.com/HoklTjg.jpg - nice bit of detail!

https://i.imgur.com/k9uSQol.jpg - Good placements, dense, but doesnt impede player movement

https://i.imgur.com/8lnhVEV.jpg - Reminds me of Portal 2's "destruction" theme.

https://i.imgur.com/AdlT8uk.jpg - best place for ammo, yes! Probably not the best idea to use such small displacements though.

Despite its sheer awesome, I worry somewhat about optimisation; that is A LOT of props, a tight culling will be extremely beneficial. Another thing of note is that with this level of detail you will probably restrict the size for your map(s). Although I suppose that wouldn't be a problem since dynamic survival seems to thrive in such areas.

Great job man, keep at it!

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After looking through your imgur album, all I can say is:

HOLY S*** CALEB.

You put so much detail into prop placement and lighting its mind blowing, that must have taken a while... The planning for the whole map must have consumed an equally large amount of time! Glad to see you continually improving "dynamic survival", it's like the Territorial Control(a TF2 gamemode very few people map for) of NMRiH :P

Heres a few comments on some of your pics:

https://i.imgur.com/JwyGFef.jpg - Great color contrast

https://i.imgur.com/EBwdSjd.jpg - Maybe you can make the floor a different texture? Its weird to have that plywood thing there. Same goes for the ceiling, but people will probably notice that less.

https://i.imgur.com/HoklTjg.jpg - nice bit of detail!

https://i.imgur.com/k9uSQol.jpg - Good placements, dense, but doesnt impede player movement

https://i.imgur.com/8lnhVEV.jpg - Reminds me of Portal 2's "destruction" theme.

https://i.imgur.com/AdlT8uk.jpg - best place for ammo, yes! Probably not the best idea to use such small displacements though.

Despite its sheer awesome, I worry somewhat about optimisation; that is A LOT of props, a tight culling will be extremely beneficial. Another thing of note is that with this level of detail you will probably restrict the size for your map(s). Although I suppose that wouldn't be a problem since dynamic survival seems to thrive in such areas.

Great job man, keep at it!

lol. You censored shit after typing it 3 times lmao :P

Yea it has to be believable or I'll internally through a fit and become dissatisfied. If it doesn't feel right to me chances are it won't feel right to anyone else. I use the "It's good enough" attitude sparingly.

I didn't plan any of it out to be honest. It all started with a 1024x142 box divided into 4 rooms. When I started making it I wasn't even sure if it was going to be a map, I was mostly just experimenting with things.

About the textures in the elevator: Most of the textures are clean and sterile so I was looking for something that gave the sense of wear and tear. I'll look for some better textures though. This was one of those "Eh, it's good enough," moments.

The displacements in the freezer work fine. I mean it doesn't seem to cause any conflict with the engine. The bottom displacement in freezer is the only one with physics and hull collision. The rest just have ray collision. Do small displacements cause issues?

Yep optimization is a worry of mine too BUT it runs good. I have APs and prop fade which helps allot. I lined up the trees outside with the windows and doorways so that they all don't render at once. All the props that the players don't interact with or have contact with are non-solid so no physic data needs to be accounted for on those props.

I don't know how it'll run with anymore than 1 player. I don't have anyone or anywhere to test it so I plan on uploading it and asking people if they'll run it and give me feedback about how it performs.

Right now the bsp is about 85MB without any of the sound files, textures, and scripts packed into it. I have 8 sound files, 5 textures files, the soundscape, and a soundmixer script So it'll be around 140MB.

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Checking in. I'm still working on this map with an nmo in the works. I'm planing on tying them together.

This nms maps name is Hunt for Orchid.
It's the concept to a story where there is rumors or theories about a rare orchid that may have a chemical compound that could produce a vaccine to prevent further infections. And the team is a volunteer group hunting down information on the Orchid. This location was rumored to have been studying this orchid and to have information on its location.

10745575796_35c063de80_c.jpg

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Hint brushes can only do so much. Having a fade distance for all props can give a huge performance boost. You can just select all props at once using the entity report and set one for all of them.

Is this necessarily true? I forget the in-game console command (im at work) but on a decently optimized map, props will not render around corners, etc just like visleafs. Maybe i can get a screenshot on here later showing this. If youre talking about using it on adajcent props to an area that are still being rendered when you cant see it, i would agree. Either way, cant wait caleb. You always post very inspiring screenshots. Its art like that, that helps keep the steam rolling around here.

Edit: well, i should never post again on my phone apparently lol..

Edited by Abilities

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Is this necessarily true? I forget the in-game console command (im at work) but on a decently optimized map, props will not render around corners, etc just like visleafs. Maybe i can get a screenshot on here later showing this. If youre talking about using it on adajcent props to an area that are still being rendered when you cant see it, i would agree. Either way, cant wait caleb. You always post very inspiring screenshots. Its art like that, that helps keep the steam rolling around here.

Edit: well, i should never post again on my phone apparently lol..

mat_wireframe 3 will show which models are being rendered if thats the command you're thinking of. Area Portals closing off a room or an area will only render whats in the pvs when it's open and nothing but leafs when it's closed.

I have APs tied to doors that auto close after a certain amount of time so I added prop fade distances to the props that are visible when that door is open. I didn't add prop fades to every prop because like you said they're not being render because of the APs and the pvs.

That being said I think APs and Occluders are the most expensive optimizations. While proper Hint & Skip brush placement is the cheapest.

Thanks for the compliment. It's all reciprocated. : )

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In my opinion, corridors are the best form of optimization (certainly the fastest). If a map is designed correctly you won't need anything. Unfortunately designing a map correctly isn't always in the interest of good art, so that is where area portals, and hint/skip come in.

Also, in my opinion, 90% of the time don't worry about stuff loading a little bit beyond where you can see even if something is optimized by a corridor - it may load a section of it ahead unless it is completely away. This is perfectly normal, and why the engine breaks visleafs into sections (based on size too) because it actually can be beneficial in some cases because the engine wants to break up a large area so it doesn't have to load it all at once (which can cause performance drop the first time you enter it). As long as your world brush form 'rooms and corridors' you should be fine. Area portal are really for REALLY heavy scenes (which aren't good to begin with) where you need to desperately reduce draw count, or complexity, or you are trying to make something work because you want it for artistic reasons, and you need dynamic loading to accomplish correctly. Although, remember this is dynamic loading and it does effect performance itself because it is calculating them dynamically in the engine rather than in the compile phase with vvis. On the other hand hint/skip are just making edits to the visleafs, and again this could slow down performance as well since it will be making more calculations at once depending on how much 'pre-loading' you remove. Also, it's adding more calculations because you are dividing the visleafs, and every time a player leaves a visleaf and enters a new one that is a calculation too. This is why keeping your world brush clean orderly is very important if you want to bring a room to the art limit.

The best way to reduce draw count is to convert func_detail into models, because the actual geometry is not what is slowing down a scene. It's the fact that each brush regardless is using one draw count, and each draw count effects the rendering process. A model is only one draw count regardless of it's geometry. Unfortunately in our version of source (non-retail) lighting on models is terrible, so you must still use func_detail for a lot of things. You just have to find out what should be a model, and what should not.

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You're fantastic, Caleb.

Your style reminds me of nay0r. If you can get this map done in time, we'd love to include it for the Halloween release!

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I am. I am indeed fantastic. Thank you. jk : \

I doubt it'll be done by then. It hasn't been properly tested and I still need to edit the nav mesh.
That and Achievements won't work on this map because I'm firing commands to the server that are considered cheats. : \

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