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Sushi

.22 LR Weapon Balance

18 posts in this topic

This isn't a suggestion for new .22 weapons as covered by the weapons thread, but rather some discussion regarding their current utility and potential tweaks to them.

I find that the 10/22 feels... well, it recoils, kicks and sounds like a .223 rifle of some kind. It's very strange. The .22 handgun less so, but both seem to hit about as hard as 9mm, maybe 5.56 for the rifle. Please correct me if I'm wrong with that. Given ammo is somewhat rare and the weapons don't hold very many rounds, I feel like they're mainly fluff, adding not much gameplay depth compared to the existing firearms while complicating ammo acquisition, the weapons themselves not being particularly common or often used.

They should be a bit more utilitarian given .22 LR is one of the most common cartridges in North America and many other places. The firearms and the rounds themselves are cheap and can be found in generous qualities. You can often buy a box of 500 rounds for well under $30.

My suggestion then is: Reduce .22 recoil and power by a significant amount, so they're portrayed realistically - less than a 9mm or 5.56. However, give them competitive power if you stand still and focus (maybe the 10/22 could focus fire as a unique ability as a rifle?) and make the time required to focus for a shot shorter since they are lighter and kick less. Perhaps make the ammunition available in slightly larger quantities and allow more to be carried. There's no reason a 10/22 couldn't have a 25-round magazine, and you can carry several hundred rounds of .22 in about the same space and weight as a box of shotgun shells.

A .22 against slow-moving shamblers should do serious damage to the braincase, but a .22 is not generally considered a weapon to rely on for every situation. By having ammo be available in slightly larger quantities and allowing more to be carried, this offsets the low effect of the caliber and provides an interesting weapon for thinning out zombie clusters, if not entirely suited to a general spectrum of situations like a 9mm handgun, shotgun or rifle due to lacking power when not aimed with care. Rather than another generic rifle and handgun similar to the 9mm handgun and .223 rifle.

What do you guys think?

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I like the idea of adding focus fire to the 10/22 rifle, and having the ammo be more plentiful to some degree.

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A few things, I do feel that the 22lr needs some tweaking, as it stands it seems to be of the same ground as 9mm weapons. Your suggestion to make them weaker and more common would be good imo (note to self: increase instances of 22lr spawn in own maps). The quick focus mode with 22lr weapons is a great suggestion it makes sense, and would increase the worth of 22lr weapons, which people generally ignore (sans a few lol).

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A few things, I do feel that the 22lr needs some tweaking, as it stands it seems to be of the same ground as 9mm weapons. Your suggestion to make them weaker and more common would be good imo (note to self: increase instances of 22lr spawn in own maps). The quick focus mode with 22lr weapons is a great suggestion it makes sense, and would increase the worth of 22lr weapons, which people generally ignore (sans a few lol).

I just used the rifle in NOTLD's map, and the ammo was a great advantage, but I feel that spraying uselessly with them to get headshots is a bit contrary to the .22's use as a survival weapon!

Also, decreasing damaged and allowing focus fire means decreasing recoil and increasing mag cap could be done without imbalancing them as they'd be less useful on the move.

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On a side note, what sort of ammunition drop sizes make sense to people, and total ammo sizes?

I feel the 20-50 rounds you can find works, but total capacity is a bit tougher. Realistically, you can get a 500-round block of .22 LR for $20, and it will fit into a big jacket pocket in loose rounds without much difficulty at all, but that's not really balanced.

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We had to drastically cut the amount of ammo found in individual boxes to balance the game. For example, finding a box of 50 .45 ACP round would drastically imbalance the game.

.22LR does need a bit more of a niche, and I don't know how we can really make it weaker but I agree the 10/22 needs to be fully reanimated to better suit its light and recoiless nature. I am also considering throwing a 25 round banana mag on the 10/22 to give it a greater value, as well as dropping its recoil almost completely.

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We had to drastically cut the amount of ammo found in individual boxes to balance the game. For example, finding a box of 50 .45 ACP round would drastically imbalance the game.

.22LR does need a bit more of a niche, and I don't know how we can really make it weaker but I agree the 10/22 needs to be fully reanimated to better suit its light and recoiless nature. I am also considering throwing a 25 round banana mag on the 10/22 to give it a greater value, as well as dropping its recoil almost completely.

Maybe the ammo could be less common, but drop in larger chunks comparatively? The way I look at it, .22 LR is in large boxes, but isn't really common for self-defense, military or police like 9mm, .45, .223, 12 gauge and .308.

Yeah, the Mk III and 10/22 both need better-fitting animations, maybe different sounds.

I think a larger capacity would really work with the focusing idea for the 10/22 and reduced damage, because making the weapon dependent on aimed fire makes it much less of a balance issue.

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I dont know why have .22 and 9mm Luger and both have same charakteristics...

.45 ACP should not have any advantage to 9mm, except less recoil, but both should be able to kill with one headshot (no matter if realism is activated). Headshot = hit in head, over the eyes, current hit box model is not polished...

Realism mode should have only one feature more, than normal : head shot kill only. But weapon damage should be constant in both modes...

Damage to player needs revision too...

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I dont know why have .22 and 9mm Luger and both have same charakteristics...

.45 ACP should not have any advantage to 9mm, except less recoil, but both should be able to kill with one headshot (no matter if realism is activated). Headshot = hit in head, over the eyes, current hit box model is not polished...

Realism mode should have only one feature more, than normal : head shot kill only. But weapon damage should be constant in both modes...

Damage to player needs revision too...

I agree entirely. .45 and 9mm even have similar characteristics when fired into ballistic gelatin. 9mm wouldn't need to be as common if it did accurate headshot damage.

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Pugman would be thrilled to hear this.

Pugman is over the moon to hear this lol.

With a BX 25 round mag in my 1022 i may just be able to kill 2 zombies with just 1 magazine. Thus doubling my killing ratio to magazine use. Pugman's gonna be unstoppable!! lol XD

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Wondering if there were any changes to the 10/22 last patch? It feels slightly different, but I'm wondering if that's placebo.

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Hey guys, about .22 caliber guns.
What do you think of Calico m100?
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/3/30/CalicoM100.jpg/500px-CalicoM100.jpg

50 or 100 round mags? ;>
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p33/mzs-aug/Magazijn1volachter25.jpg

or maybe m110 pistol?
http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=22-2

In my opinion "No more room in hell" is the only game that deserves this kind of unique weapons ;] What do You think?

Imagine this in game ;]

Edited by Gunman

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Hey guys, about .22 caliber guns.

What do you think of Calico m100?

http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/3/30/CalicoM100.jpg/500px-CalicoM100.jpg

50 or 100 round mags? ;>

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p33/mzs-aug/Magazijn1volachter25.jpg

or maybe m110 pistol?

http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/index.php?page=22-2

In my opinion "No more room in hell" is the only game that deserves this kind of unique weapons ;] What do You think?

Imagine this in game ;]

Don't revive old threads like that :\, also this is supposed to be on the weapon suggestion thread lol.

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